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Cemindia Projects Limited — Call Transcript 2023
Nov 14, 2023
61981_rns_2023-11-14_552f361d-065e-4974-9f6e-596d12bd9173.pdf
Call Transcript
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Cem ITD Cementation India[Limited]
Commitment, Reliability & Quality
Dept. of Corporate Services – Corporate Relationship, BSE Limited, Phiroze Jeejeebhoy Towers, Dalal Street, Mumbai 400 001.
National Stock Exchange of India Limited, Listing Department, Exchange Plaza, C-1, Block ‘G’ BandraKurla Complex, Bandra (East), Mumbai 400 051.
Date Our Reference No. Our Contact Direct Line 14[th] November, 2023 SEC/11/2023 RAHUL NEOGI 91 22 67680814 [email protected]
Dear Sirs,
Sub: Transcript of Analysts / Investors conference call on Unaudited Financial Results for the quarter and half year ended 30[th] September, 2023
Scrip Code No: 509496 (BSE) / ITDCEM (NSE)
In terms of Regulation 30 read with clause 15 of Para A of Part A of Schedule III of the SEBI (Listing Obligations and Disclosure Requirements) Regulations, 2015, please find enclosed the Transcript of Analysts / Investors conference call held on 9[th] November 2023 relating to the Unaudited Financial Results for the quarter and half year ended 30[th] September, 2023.
We have uploaded the same on the website of the Company at
- https://www.itdcem.co.in/wp content/uploads/2016/06/Concall_Transcript_Q2_FY24_091123.pdf
Please acknowledge and take the same on record.
Thanking you,
Yours faithfully, For ITD Cementation India Limited
RAHUL NEOGI
Digitally signed by RAHUL NEOGI DN: c=IN, o=Personal, postalCode=400101, st=Maharashtra, 2.5.4.20=d6d0df5445796b87b8d90ab7a54ecb6fa930dd593fdf12cc80090f398780228b, pseudonym=6A90452343F3F023CF80080B1BA7597371D386ED, serialNumber=8D2A9ED0DFE2EEF0B6F68C1B48856DD103F7E3A97C4B25E6D1B16D812D7260A5, cn=RAHUL NEOGI Date: 2023.11.14 12:48:48 +05'30'
(RAHUL NEOGI) COMPANY SECRETARY
Encl: as above
ITD Cementation India Limited
Registered & Corporate Office : 9th Floor, Prima Bay, Tower - B, Gate No. 5, Saki Vihar Road. Powai. Mumbai - 400 072 Tel.: 91-22-66931600 fax : 91-22-66931628 www.itdcem.co.in Corporate Identity Number : L61000MH 1978PLC020435
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ITD Cementa�on India Limited Q2 FY24 Earnings Conference Call
Event Date / Time : 9/11/2023, 16:00 Hrs.
CORPORATE PARTICIPANTS:
Mr. Jayanta Basu Managing Director
Mr. Prasad Patwardhan
Mr. Mohit Kumar
ICICI Securi�es
ITD Cementa�on India limited Q2 FY24 Earnings Conference Call
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Moderator
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'm Edwin, moderator for the conference call. Welcome to ITD Cementa�on India Limited Q2 FY24 Results Conference Call hosted by ICICI Securi�es Limited. As a reminder, all par�cipants will be in listen-only mode and there'll be an opportunity for you to ask ques�ons a�er the presenta�on concludes. Should you need any assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing * then 0 on your touch-tone telephone. Please note this conference is recorded. I would now like to hand over the floor to Mr. Mohit Kumar from ICICI Securi�es. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Mohit Kumar
Thank you, Edwin. Good evening. On behalf of ICICI Securi�es, I welcome you all to the Q2 FY24 earnings call of ITD Cementa�on India Limited. Today, we are pleased to host the Senior Management of the company, which is represented by Mr. Jayanta Basu, Managing Director, Mr. Prasad Patwardhan, CFO of the company. Without much delay, I'll now hand over the call to Mr. Patwardhan, sir, for his opening remarks, which will be followed by Q&A. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Prasad Patwardhan
Thank you, Mohit. Good a�ernoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us on this Q2 FY24 earnings call. We declared our results for the second quarter yesterday. And I'm sure you have had a chance to go through our numbers. Before we begin the discussion, I would like to men�on that during the course of this call, there could be some forward-looking statements that will be made. These are subject to risks and the actual results are likely to differ materially from these statements. So, I would like to request you to keep all this in mind. I will start with the financial performance of the company and then hand over to Mr. Basu for his views on the opera�onal performance and then we’ll take your calls.
We have reported a robust performance in this quarter. With an opera�ng income of INR 1,610 crores as against INR 1,035 crores, a growth of 56% on a YoY basis. EBITDA at INR 172 crores has grown by about 78% on a YoY basis. And profit a�er tax is INR 54 crores as against INR 20 crores with an increase of about 168%. Our balance sheet con�nues to be leverage much less. And our net debt to equity is about 0.34 �mes. Our order book stands a li�le over INR 22,000 crores as of Q2 end. And the new orders that we have secured during the quarter are worth about INR 4,600 crores.
That is all from my side to start with. I'll now hand out to Mr. Basu for your opening comments.
Jayanta Basu
Thank you, Prasad. Good evening, all of you for joining this con-call. Happy to say that we had seen another one good quarter in terms of the profitability, and even the revenue as well. Normally, this was monsoon
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all available with you, so I don't have to talk on much on that. But, if you like, I may have men�oned that EBITDA is around INR 172 crore on consol, a revenue of INR 1,610 crores, which was up to more than 10% EBITDA margin. PAT was INR 54 crore, 3.3% of the revenue. And in last six months, that is Q1 and Q2, we have achieved around INR 3,500 crores of revenue.
We have to consider that in Q2 due to monsoon revenue was a li�le less. So normally, Q3 and Q4 we can expect be�er revenues than Q1 and Q2. Say last year, our Q1 on Q2 revenue was INR 2,000 crore and Q2, Q3 was INR 3,000 crores, just for informa�on. Our cash posi�on also is good. Collec�on and ou�low, we are able to manage properly. You may like to know progress and status of few major jobs, which I'll share with you. Underground metros, we are having the underground metro in Chennai, running job. Kolkata and Mumbai is almost in verge of comple�on. Bengaluru Metro substan�al progress has been done, around 80% of the job has been completed. Chennai, around 20% plus progress we have done.
And good thing about Chennai is that in one of the package, as you know, we have got 2 packages there, already we have launched our tunnel boring machine and the tunnel boring has already started from the Marina beach site. In Road i.e. Ganga expressway, from the incep�on we have so far achieved around INR 900 crore revenue during the last seven to eight months. Monsoon has affected last quarter. So, around 18% revenue progress we have achieved in a very small dura�on of �me. The earthwork is the main item there. Almost 40% of the earthwork has been completed. We have our plan and that's going on pre�y well as per the plan progress. I also like to men�on here that one bridge over the Ganga river at Allahabad, we have completed, all the founda�on and superstructure. So, this has gone very well.
come from overseas. All the civil works has been completed. A remarkable project in terms of the challenge and the volume. Colombo, overseas job is going pre�y well. You must have seen some news yesterday and day before yesterday, about the promoter's view and support they are ge�ng from the financial ins�tu�ons. We are there very much and progress is as per the schedule. Vizhinjam breakwater, another one marine job, very challenging. I'm happy to say that the job is almost ge�ng completed by end of this year. So, with that, there are a few other jobs like airport at Trichy and Pune almost completed.
At Delhi, Kasturba Nagar, a�er 2 years the job has started a few months back, so now it has picked up. We have started also the army headquarter at Delhi. We have achieved the first milestone as per the schedule and few other building jobs also going okay. So with this, as you can see that we have got INR 22,000 crores of work and marine has again come to the top around 35.3% of the share of the work. We have got few jobs in pipeline.
One of the job we are L1 is in Vizag that is for the ship repairing facility for Hindustan Shipyard. We are discussing with the customer. And we are also pursuing few overseas jobs as well. So, with this, I'll stop, and I request you to have ques�ons. We are ready to answer whatever you ask. Thank you.
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Q&A
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the ques�on-and-answer session. If you have a ques�on please press * and 1 on your telephone keypad and wait for your turn to ask the ques�on. If you would like to withdraw your request, you may do so by pressing * and 1 again. The first ques�on comes from Nikhil Abhyankar from ICICI Securi�es.
Nikhil Abhyankar
Yes, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. You have reported very strong robust execu�on growth in the H1 itself. And also, the margins are already above 9% in H1. So, will you be revising your guidance for FY23?
Jayanta Basu
Based on which guidance you are talking?
Nikhil Abhyankar
Jayanta Basu
I think, we'll maintain the same, which is around INR 7,000-core-plus in the top line. We hope that EBITDA will be just 10% above this end of the year.
Nikhil Abhyankar
Jayanta Basu
Order, so far, we have secured close to INR 5,000 crore, INR 4,800 crore. And as we said that few jobs, L1 and there are some prospects. So hopefully, end of the year, it will be around INR 8,000-crore-plus total order inflow in this year.
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Nikhil Abhyankar
Okay. What is the quantum of the L1 order that you're si�ng in?
Jayanta Basu
Sorry, can you come again?
Nikhil Abhyankar
What is the value of the L1 order?
Jayanta Basu
L1 order is about INR 650 crores.
Nikhil Abhyankar
opportuni�es that you're looking at and that is it first.
Jayanta Basu
The opportunity, we have few marine jobs in Bangladesh. The tenders are now under prepara�on and hopefully by end of this year we'll be able to submit our bid. And few marine job already have quoted for JSW and Adani as well. We are pursuing some job in Odisha for a big port, new port being developed. We have also some hydroelectric job pursuing at Karnataka. And there are jobs from ArcelorMi�al in Hazira. So, it’s the mix of various segment, like marine, the building and the metros. Altogether, I think around INR 13,000 crore, INR 14,000 crores of job is under the pipeline now.
Nikhil Abhyankar
companies are announcing their plans. So, are we thinking of developing any capabili�es in this segment?
Jayanta Basu
Actually, we are in this segment, and we have done, few very challenging jobs in this segment before. In Meghalaya we have done, and we are also pursuing a similar kind of job now. So, yes, we are there, very much there.
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Nikhil Abhyankar
Sir, are there any discussions with any of the IPPs or developers?
Jayanta Basu
Yes. We are discussing.
Nikhil Abhyankar
Thank you and all the very best sir.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next ques�on comes from Bajrang Bafna from Sunidhi Securi�es.
Bajrang Bafna
exis�ng order book we are si�ng on, let's say, INR 22,000 crores of order book and we have a visibility of, let's say, another INR 3,000-4,000 crore to flow during this financial year in the second half. So, considering, what could be the average execu�on cycle and what sort of growth on this base of INR 7,000 crore execu�on this year we can expect or, let's say, FY25-26? Some strategy or the guidance or the thought process of the management will be really appreciated.
And my second ques�on is the visibility on the, like you are moving more and more towards slightly, the projects where margins are high and the compe��on is low, like marine and some complex jobs where, which is not the business of other companies where you can run a be�er margin. So, the trajectory maybe next 2-3 year perspec�ve, where we can move from, let’s say this 10% to maybe towards 12%, 13%? Is it something the management is thinking from next 2, 3 years perspec�ve? So that's the second ques�on from my side. And some sense on the improvement in the working capital cycle that probably how we are looking at, and some thought process on that will be appreciated. That's all from my side. Thank you.
Jayanta Basu
Okay. I think many things you have asked in just one ques�on. Good. So, I'll try to address one-by-one. This year, the revenue so far, we have done around INR 3,500 crores. So, this Q3 and Q4 will be definitely a li�le bit more than that. So, hopefully INR 7,000-crore-plus, I mean, we'll definitely achieve. Going forward to next year, we can think about around 20%, 25% growth in top line, because work in hand what we have now they are fairly big, like Ganga expressway, as you know, INR 5,000 crore, and project for Navy, we had
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project worth of INR 3,200 crores. Bangalore Metro and Chennai Metro as well. So, big �cket jobs. So, revenue-wise, we should be able to achieve around 25% more than this year.
Regarding further from next year onwards, our focus will remain for the bigger jobs. The idea is do less number of project, but each project should be bigger. Bigger in the sense, INR 1,000 crore, INR 2,000 crore in that range. And that gives us lot of leverage to properly efficiently execute that we have seen. That is why we are also targe�ng job, which has got turnkey sort of things, like electromechanical, crane and many other things, not only civil. And our focus also will remain on the green energy because a lot of emphasized being given by the government and some private sector on the green energy, on hydrogen. So, big plants are being set up by the local entrepreneurs.
We are focusing on that. We're also focusing in neighboring countries for the marine work at least. And there are some inquiries which are quite encouraging. So that is what I can say about the execu�on for next one or two years. Regarding working capital, Prasad, if you can address that.
Prasad Patwardhan
working capital is today less than 90 days. While, there are obviously opportuni�es to improve the working capital cycle. I don't think there is a significant improvement possible beyond this level. So, 80, 85 days, I think is a very robust and healthy net working capital cycle. But our endeavor will be to wherever possible to improve the cycle further.
Bajrang Bafna
Okay. Sir, just one sense that we want to get now. Most of the players who are there in the industry, in the infrastructure side, they are struggling to get BG limits at the right cos�ng, like we were even bearing that a lot of being 2% or maybe 2.5% kind of the BG cost for ge�ng those lines from the banking channel. So, what is the interest rate that we are paying on BG currently? And some sense on that because it is a major por�on of our interest cost as well. So, some guidance on that will be really helpful.
Prasad Patwardhan
Well, the guarantee commission that we pay generally varies from 0.7%, 0.8%. And it depends on the value and the tenure of the bank guarantee. So, especially for the guarantees that we provide in foreign countries where there is more than one bank involved. The bank guarantee commission would tend to be a bit higher, but it's in the range of about, say, 1% or thereabouts, 0.8% to 1% or thereabouts.
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Bajrang Bafna
are mee�ng with a lot of companies, they're all struggling for ge�ng this BG limits at the right cos�ng. So, this is really challenging, and it is really happening to know that we are ge�ng most compe��ve rate in the industry, at least for this BG is concerned. Thank you, sir.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next ques�on comes from Pra�k Kothari from Unique PMS.
Pra�k Kothari
We're currently already at about INR 7,000 crore, INR 7,500 crore run rate. We'll be at INR 10,000 crore very soon. So, if you can talk about internally, what are we doing, or how are we preparing to execute and scale. This is something which we have not obviously done in the past. So, how is our prepara�on going internally?
Jayanta Basu
of all, technical capability, that's not an issue because we have got experienced people and through experience, they are quite knowledgeable in the business what we are. We have to build up some new team for the overseas. So, what we are doing now, we have already worked in Myanmar. We are working in Colombo. We are working in Bangladesh. So, there is a core team. So, we’re trying to invest some more team with the exis�ng core team. So that by other 6-7 months �me, they become trained.
The most important part is the support system, because we have to support the execu�on from logis�cs, from finance and from whatever do you say. So, those area we are strengthening. And the plant machinery is not a problem because nowadays you get the required plant machinery, either you can buy it or you can hire it. Those things are pre�y available.
So, where we stuck up mostly is the bo�om force, the labor force, work man. And that is a common problem for all the companies in our industry. So, we are trying to migrate from most of the manual work to the mechanical work. That is one area. And second area, how to educate this labor force, how to keep them, how to con�nue them in our company, what sort of ini�a�ve we should take. So, we’re really focusing on that. So, these are some of the area, I mean, things we are doing to increase our capability.
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Pra�k Kothari
Correct. Fair enough. And, sir, earlier I think we had planned for about INR 150 crore, INR 200 crores of Capex this year and I think they've already done INR 240 crores in first half itself. So, any change in plans? Are we accelera�ng something for the execu�on coming up there, if you can highlight there?
Jayanta Basu
Yes, I think the Capex was more of this last year or so because of we have to invest a lot trench cu�er and tunnel boring machine for the metro jobs that we have secured. But going forward, we don't expect that that much of Capex will be involved. Because whatever we have already, that can be used for the next project. And for the marine, we already have our adequate plant and machinery. There will be some, but not to this extent.
Pra�k Kothari
Okay. So, large part of whatever investments we have to make for next, taking into account next 18 months, 24 months, we have already begun that, and it will only be minor going forward.
Jayanta Basu
Exactly. Except Bangladesh project, which is already we have secured and it is not Capex. Basically, you have to rent some big machinery for a dura�on of 6-7 months’ �me. So otherwise, large amount of Capex, what we have invested already that will yield our result. We don't expect much investment now.
Pra�k Kothari
Got it. Fair enough. And sir, one of the previous par�cipant answer, you did men�on that now our focus would be to do less number of jobs but do very large INR 1,000-crore-plus. Is it also fair to assume that the compe��on in that segment is lower than usually what we see at a lower order rate of INR 200 crore, INR 300 crore, INR 500 crores order?
Jayanta Basu
Exactly. If you see, now if you have a airport tender, and the value is INR 300 crore to INR 400 crores, you'll find 10 par�cipants there. For the same airport terminal building, if it cos�ng INR 2,000 crore, it will hardly come down to 3 or 5 par�cipants, in that way also. And good for us that we are able to get qualified ourselves because for whatever work we have done. So definitely, the �ckets is big, the compe��on is less.
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Pra�k Kothari
Got it. So, my last ques�on to Prasad sir, if you can highlight any further provisions that we have made this quarter? And also, in a standalone cash flow, we see this INR 9 crores of loss from some unincorporated en�ty, if you can highlight what is that regarding?
Prasad Patwardhan
No, we haven't done. What we would have done is a normal expected credit loss provisions. So, there is nothing really any addi�onal provision that we have carried out in this quarter.
Pra�k Kothari
Correct. And the loss from unincorporated en�ty?
Prasad Patwardhan
So, that is something that we had done in Q1. I don't think we have done anything in Q2 right now. So, maybe you're looking at the six-month balance sheet or the cash flows, there it will get reflected because it is for the half year and not for this quarter in par�cular.
Pra�k Kothari
Fair enough. Thank you and all the best sir.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next ques�on comes from Siddarth Shah from MK Ventures.
Siddarth Shah
Yes. So, thank you for the opportunity and congratula�ons on great set of numbers. Sir, in your opening remarks, you men�oned that second half was normally much higher than the first half. For example, last year, you had INR 3,000 crores in second half and INR 2,000 crores in first half, so 60-40 type of ra�o. But the current year guidance is s�ll around INR 7,000 crores, and you already done INR 3,500 crores in first half. And also, all the projects are taking off well. Just to understand, is this quite conserva�ve or this is what is prac�cally possible or what is? So, some comments on this would be very helpful, sir.
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Jayanta Basu
Yes, I think you have rightly picked up the comments what I made. I want to emphasize that whatever guideline we have given, that is definitely we'll be able to achieve that. We definitely try to achieve more, but some�mes those numbers also varies year-by-year, it may not be same this year. Last year, 50% more, this year it maybe a li�le bit less on that. So, what I try to emphasize, the INR 7,000-core-plus definitely will be achieved this year.
Siddarth Shah
Sure, sir. That's helpful. And the second ques�on is similar ques�on to one of the previous par�cipants, that going forward, all this provisioning of Bangalore project and all has been taken. So, from next year onwards, what kind of margins are you guys internally working on. Is it 12%, 13% margin possible in the next two-three years or we should kind of expect 10% of margin going forward?
Jayanta Basu
See, so far, �ll few quarters back, our margin is to be around 8% to 9%, 8.5% EBITDA, which has come to close to 10% now. So ,beyond that, if you have to do one you have to really get the job at a be�er price. So, we have to be in the compe��on also. So, yes, 10%-plus and how much we can go beyond that has to be seen based on the nature of job and what price are ge�ng the job, what is the compe��on etc.
Siddarth Shah
Sure, sir. And sir, last ques�on is on the debt part. If you can just highlight what is the net debt of the company now as on date?
Prasad Patwardhan
Net debt of the company as of September end is about INR 460 crores.
Siddarth Shah
Ok sir. That’s it from my side. Thank you and all the best sir.
Prasad Patwardhan
Thank you Siddarth.
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Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next ques�on comes from Laha Nirvana from Laha Professional Investor.
Laha Nirvana
Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Sir, I wanted to understand because general elec�ons will be there in Q1 of next financial year. So, just like in the road sector, there is usually some slowdown. In our line of business, do you an�cipate any kind of execu�on slowdown?
Jayanta Basu
Not really. I think because of elec�on, there'll be a lot of pressure to do more work. So, because of elec�on, I don't see that will affect our work. In fact new tenders or new projects which come up tendering, but the orders that we have already received or have been awarded to us, we don't expect any slowdown in the execu�on of the projects that we have on hand.
Laha Nirvana
Okay. And for orders also, sir, do you an�cipate a slowdown? And if you do, then do you expect it to be a transient phenomenon which will take it normalized in from Q2, Q3 onwards next year?
Jayanta Basu
be a bit of slow down or postponement in some of the tenders which come up for bidding. But that would obviously be a temporary phenomenon, when the elec�ons are through, I mean, the focus on infrastructure would remain. And I don't think it is going to impact the industry in the long run.
Laha Nirvana
destruc�on. So, we are doing those tunnel projects in Rangpo. So, was there any impact on our project or is there going to be any impact in future?
Jayanta Basu
So, touchwood, there was no damage to, for any structure or any sort of, I mean, problem we faced. The only thing that few days the work was stopped, that too only for three, four days. So, we are able to manage. I don't see that there's any issue with that.
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Laha Nirvana
already discussed. Now, I no�ced that our opera�ng cash flows are quite healthy in half year. So, I think going forward also, we can hope to generate this kind of opera�ng cash flow. So, are we planning to become net debt free any�me soon, Prasad, sir?
Prasad Patwardhan
business is working capital intensive to some extent. So, while we are trying to manage or ensure that the debt doesn't go out of hand in our balance sheet. I really don't see us becoming a net debt free in this financial year or the next financial year.
Laha Nirvana
Okay, sir. In that case, can you help me understand the interest rate trajectory. So, I think you have shortterm working capital loans, long-term loans, and the non-fund based limits that you take. So, can you guide the interest rates that we should assume for this, so that we can sort of es�mate the interest costs that will come?
Prasad Patwardhan
Well, I can indicate the interest rates that are being charged to us presently. Now, going forward, we'll have to see, it depends on many factors. So, for our working capital debt, the interest rate would vary typically from 9%, 9.5% to maybe 10.5% or 11%. For term debt, the interest rates are s�ll lower than that, maybe in higher single-digits.
Laha Nirvana
Okay. And for our BG limit, you said maximum 1%?
Prasad Patwardhan
It's around 1%. It typically depends on the bank which we are dealing with and the tenure of the bank guarantee and the loca�on where it is issued. So, there are mul�ple factors will influence the charges that we pay. But it's around 1%, maybe some�mes a li�le higher than 1% or many �mes lower than 1% as well.
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Laha Nirvana
Can you help me understand towards what this CapEx has gone towards? Because I'm not very familiar with the kind of machinery that you're using. So, it'll be very helpful if you can outline, like, what are the kind of machines we have got with this and why a buy decision versus a leasing decision, so some color on that so that we understand be�er.
Jayanta Basu
Look, at Chennai metro, we had to do a construc�on called diaphragm wall, which is ver�cal wall below the ground, which goes around 30, 35 meters. And in most of the cases, you have to do the wall through soil. But typically in Chennai metro, it is rock. In rock, whenever you try to do such work, you require a special machine, which is called trench cu�er. Hardly we had in India before. So, we had to have 9 trench cu�er mobilized. To answer your second ques�on, out of that 4 we have bought and 5 is buyback or rental sort of things.
Laha Nirvana
What is the cost for each machine?
Jayanta Basu
It will vary around INR 40 crore plus-minus each machine. And suppor�ng the trench cu�er there are some other small equipment, and we bought few piling rigs as well. And another one, the important thing is the Tunnel Boring Machine. We bought one tunnel boring machine for the Chennai metro. So, tunnel boring machine, trench cu�er and few piling rigs. These are the equipment we have purchased out of the CapEx.
Laha Nirvana
Okay. That's helpful, sir. Final two ques�ons follow-up on this. The four trench cu�ers. You said INR 40 crore per trench cu�er, right?
Jayanta Basu
Yes, around that.
Laha Nirvana
Okay. And the tunnel boring machine would be how much?
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Prasad Patwardhan
The tunnel boring machine, there is a cost of procurement and there's some refurbishment cost as well. So, each tunnel boring machine could cost between, say, INR 30 crore and INR 40 crores.
Laha Nirvana
Okay. And we hope to u�lize this machine across the mul�ple projects. We are working on tunnel projects plus metro projects, I think. So, u�liza�on you think will not be a challenge for both the trench cu�ers and the TBM machine that we have bought?
Jayanta Basu
Yes. We have to u�lize them. There are visibility. That is what is the business. I mean, you have to u�lize them.
Laha Nirvana
Right, sir. Sir, many congratula�ons on this quarter, it was really heartening to see 10% EBITDA. And really wishing that in the coming years, you can cross INR 10,000 crore with much higher EBITDA margins and keep doing the excellent high level technical work that the en�re team is doing. Thank you so much.
Jayanta Basu
Thank you.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next ques�on comes from Aman Soni, an Individual Investor.
Aman Soni
go one by one. My first ques�on was on the margin profile. I understand that, the company does different orders from NHAI to Marine and all other things. So, which kind of orders provide a be�er margin? And if you can quan�fy that, that would be great.
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Prasad Patwardhan
Well, typically, our experience has been that underground metro and marine projects give us be�er margins. There would typically each project comes with its own set of complexi�es. So, the margin profile would differ from project to project, but our margins are certainly higher on these two segments as compared to the other segments that we work in.
Aman Soni
Okay. Alright. And, one more thing, reading your previous con-call that you men�oned something about INR 29 crore provisioning that you did. So, what was it during the current quarter?
Prasad Patwardhan
Nothing. There was no provisioning. This was in the Q1, for one of the elevated metro projects, we have taken a hit of INR 29 crores in Q1. There is nothing in Q2.
Aman Soni
Okay. And secondly, my last ques�on is on the tax rate. So, in the past couple of quarters, I see the tax rate hovers around some�mes 40%, 45%. So, what should be the number going forward? What can we expect?
Prasad Patwardhan
No. On a standalone basis the tax rate is around 25%, so there's no change in that. But the results that we declared has a mix of our standalone profit as well as the profit that we record on some of the joint venture projects that we have. And that is why there is a change in the tax rate. But going forward, I think it should be in the range of 25%, 26%.
Aman Soni
their comple�on period. So, I can see that some other companies in their investor presenta�on usually give what the percentage which is completed along with the project name. So, would it be possible to share that in the coming quarters in the investor presenta�on?
Prasad Patwardhan
There are about 50, 60 projects that we are execu�ng, but that's a good input that we have received from you. We'll see how we can factor that in the presenta�on going forward.
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Aman Soni
whatever your top orders are, and that would be very much helpful.
Prasad Patwardhan
Right.
Aman Soni
Ok That’s all. Thank you so much.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next ques�on comes from Sameer Deshpande from Fairdeal Investments. Sameer Deshpande
Hello. Good evening, sir. And congratula�ons for the excellent set of results you have produced over the last 6 months. So, actually, I heard the net debt is around INR 460 crores or 260 crores?
Prasad Patwardhan
INR 460 crore.
Sameer Deshpande
INR 460 crore?
Prasad Patwardhan
Yes.
Sameer Deshpande
Because in the balance sheet, if I go for the consolidated balance sheet, the gross loans are around INR 750 crores, and cash and bank balances it’s totaling around INR 500 crores. So, it comes to INR 250 crores net debt.
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Prasad Patwardhan
No, the gross rate number is correct. We have taken some of the deposits are earmarked against some of the guarantees that have been issued. So, we have already considered the unencumbered deposits for working out the net debt. And according to that, the net debt works out to about INR 460 crores.
Sameer Deshpande
Okay. So, it is quite comfortable considering the industry situa�on. And we have managed our working capital also very well. As you men�oned, less than 90 days is quite commendable. And, you men�oned regarding this mari�me projects, and this underground metros are the most profitable part of our total business. So, in that demand, that mari�me order contributes, I think, more than 50% of our order book or 40%?
Jayanta Basu
It is now close to 40%.
Sameer Deshpande
Which is around INR 7,800 crores out of INR 22,000 crores. Okay. It's quite good. Business is picking up well and we hope the execu�on also will be good in the second half.
Jayanta Basu
Yes, that is what is expected.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next ques�on comes from Kaushik Poddar from KB Capital Markets Pvt Ltd.
Kaushik Poddar
See, with your turnover going up sharply, say, 20%, 25%. Do you see the margin also growing up, EBITDA margin?
Prasad Patwardhan
changed. So theore�cally, it should go up.
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Kaushik Poddar
And to what level do you see in 2025? See, right now, I think you are around 10.6% or 10.7%. So, can we think of, say, 11%, 11.5% this year and next year?
Jayanta Basu
Yes. Actually, the margin also is a func�on of compe��on. You have to seek some job as a lower margin. So that is also a way. So yes, 10%-plus, let us see how best we can do in the next year.
Kaushik Poddar
Okay. And do you see with the elec�on being a few months away or something, there will be a kind of freeze in new orders?
Jayanta Basu
Yeah, expected around the elec�on �me there'll be, but whatever work we have only secured, and whatever we are expec�ng from the L1, I don't see whatever we have given the guidelines will be affected.
Kaushik Poddar
for next year? I mean, that should not be a problem because of the orders are at hand, that's what you're saying?
Jayanta Basu
Yes, you're right.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have any ques�ons, please press * and 1 on your telephone keypad. Next ques�on comes from Kunal Patudia, an Individual Investor.
Kunal Patudia
Congratula�ons, sir, for the fantas�c results. And hope to get the guidelines also net for the balance of the six months. Sir, I wanted to ask about the arbitra�on awards that we have in our hand, and do we expect any cash flow from any of these awards in this financial year?
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Jayanta Basu
Yes. Kunal, you are most welcome. Thank you for joining this con-call. Yes, we have got a few arbitra�on award. One, is from Kolkata airport, which was a joint venture of our parent company. The discussions are going on. So, we expect that some result will come out soon. I mean, when I say soon, maybe three-four months’ �me. And another one award we have from the Noida authority, which is around INR 40-oddcrores. So, now the authority has gone to the court challenging the award. But normally, if the arbitra�on award are there, you can expect that the court order also will be favorable to us. So, these are the two arbitra�on awards we are now pursuing.
Kunal Patudia
Jayanta Basu
From the arbitra�on?
Kunal Patudia
Yes, from the arbitra�on.
Jayanta Basu
are going on. So, we really want to see that how well it goes out. So, we don't want to comment on that, but Noida is around INR 40 crore will look at it.
Kunal Patudia
Right, sir. So, if you could give me a breakup of the revenue that you expect from Ganga expressway, Chennai metro and Varsha project for next six months?
Jayanta Basu
Ganga expressway, there should be around INR 152 crore to INR 200 crore per month. Typically metro job INR 40 crore to INR 50 crore per month for each metro job. That is the sta�s�c. We don't go into such details.
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Kunal Patudia
And sir, Varsha marine project?
Jayanta Basu
Varsha marine project is a li�le bit early because we are s�ll in the planning stage. It depends upon where we do the dredging, because we can do the dredging in the monsoon, before the next monsoon starts. Or we may go to dredging a�er the next month to start. So, the whole thing will depend upon the dredging progress. At this moment, I don't have the right number to share with you.
Kunal Patudia
Right, sir. So, for Ganga expressway, you said INR 900 crore revenue was booked in this quarter. Am I correct, sir?
Jayanta Basu
No. You are wrong. So far we have done INR 900 crores from the incep�on.
Kunal Patudia
Okay. This is the total execu�on. Okay. Understood. So, one more thing I wanted to understand. We are giving, paying royalty to our parent company, ITD Thai, and we are also giving dividends. Can the company consider a share buyback, which is more tax efficient for retail and small investors?
Jayanta Basu
I don't have the answer for that today. This is our discussion strategy. So, I won't be able to comment on that, right now.
Kunal Patudia
with L&T Finance? Have we �ed up with any NBFC or is there anything in pipeline that we are looking to do it?
Prasad Patwardhan
We have such facili�es from a few of our banks.
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Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next is a follow-up ques�on from Bajrang Bafna from Sunidhi Securi�es.
Bajrang Bafna
Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, on the Bangalore metro is there anything le�? Because I think most of the provisions has already been done. Any revenue which is yet to be booked or any more provisions required? And can we expect some sort of the total loss that we booked over last any maybe one to two year kind of �me frame? It’s upwards of INR 150 crores, if I recollect it right. So, any possibility of ge�ng this money back to some se�lement or some arbitra�on. So, some guidance on that will be really helpful, sir.
Jayanta Basu
Well, Bangalore metro, physically all work completed. There are four contracts there. So out of that three contract already taken over by the client, final bill cer�fied, our cer�fica�on is under progress. The fourth one also completed and taking over also is happening. So, what about le� out revenue would be hardly few crores, which will come through the final bill. And the provisioning part is almost over. I don't expect there'll be anything further required that I have clarified in the last con-call as well. And we have got a few claims and the addi�onal work done. We have submi�ed our bill. So, those are under process and some will go for arbitra�on. And as you know that arbitra�on process takes �me. We will not be able to comment on the �meline, but definitely we’re pursuing few claims on our extra items.
Bajrang Bafna
So, what is the total cost overrun that we have booked so far in P&L in the Bengaluru project? The total amount �ll date.
Prasad Patwardhan
further.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next ques�on comes from Mehul Mehta from Nuvama Wealth.
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Mehul Mehta
been so far incurred. So, any guidance for next, I mean, for H2, like, what would it like to be for CapEx? What can we expect?
Jayanta Basu
right now. But, going forward, it will be quite less. I don't have the exact number, but it will be much less.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next is a follow-up ques�on from Sameer Deshpande from Fairdeal Investments.
Sameer Deshpande
Thank you for the follow-up ques�on. I wanted to know what is the amount of advance received against contracts in our current liabili�es?
Prasad Patwardhan
Well, as of the quarter end, the total amount of advances outstanding is about INR 1,300 crores, INR 1,400 crores.
Sameer Deshpande
INR 1,300 crores, INR 1,400 crores. Because normally we must be receiving the advances when new contract we are ge�ng, we will be receiving certain por�on as advance. So, it is INR 1,300 crores, INR 1,400 crores. What was the amount last year, any idea on that?
Prasad Patwardhan
Sameer Deshpande
Okay. Because our unbilled work in progress as on 30th September is around INR 1,540 crores.
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Prasad Patwardhan
Right.
Sameer Deshpande
of the new contracts issued, et cetera, in significant way, this figure also must be be�er. That will help us in ques�oning our working capital requirements?
Prasad Patwardhan
No, you're right. And the numbers will be available in our Annual Report and our results are available publicly, so you will be able to look at it. The work in progress is higher because we need to, in the ini�al periods of any project, a�er it is awarded, there is a lot of expenditure that we need to incur our mobilizing plant, equipment, materials, etc. And only when the billing cycle starts that we see modera�on in the work in progress. And so, I think the growth in the work in progress number is in line with the growth in our order book and our revenue.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Next is a follow-up ques�on from Pra�k Kothari from Unique PMS.
Pra�k Kothari
Yes. Sir, one comment from you on ports. I mean, we read about Mr. Jindal's comment on the kind of capacity which they expect that India should build, similarly from Adani Ports. Recently this development the US government funding one of your projects. Just your comment, I mean, what kind of pipeline or runway do you see for next few years on the port side?
Jayanta Basu
bulk cargo. When I say bulk cargo, it is iron ore, coal, ete. So, there will be a lot of new terminal, it has to be there in the coming years. And you can see that is ge�ng reflected in the Odisha, one by one of the promoters like, Adani, Jindal, ArcelorMi�al, and many of them are focusing in Odisha to building up the port there. And at the same �me, defense also coming up with a lot of marine jobs in and around the coastline in Ahmedabad and many other places. So, there is a lot of marine job prospect in India going forward.
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Moderator
comments.
Prasad Patwardhan
Thank you very much for joining us on this Q2 FY24 earnings call. On behalf of the company, Mr. Basu and myself, I would like to wish each and every one of you a very Happy Diwali and prosperous New Year. Look forward to interac�ng with you again a�er our Q3 results. Thank you.
Moderator
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference for today. Thank you for your par�cipa�on and for using Door Sabha's conference call service. You may disconnect your lines now. Thank you and have a pleasant day.
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